Logo
    Show
    Hide
    Login
    Close

    SITE LOGIN

    • Forgot your password?

    Register

    Tailgate Industries
    • REVIEWS
      • Ski Gear
        • Skis
        • Boots
        • Bindings
        • Climbing Skins
        • Poles
        • Snowboards
      • Clothing
        • Hard Shells
        • Soft Shells
        • Insulation
        • Mid Layers
        • Base Layers
        • Gloves
        • Socks
      • Accessories
        • Safety Gear
        • Goggles and Helmets
        • Ski Touring Packs
        • Ski Boxes and Bags
        • Sleeping Bags - 4 Season
        • Technology
        • Sunglasses
        • Insoles & Braces
        • Books
      • Off-Season Gear
        • Hiking
          • Rain Shells
          • Day Packs
          • Apparel
          • Footwear
          • Safety
        • Camping
          • Backpacks
          • Sleeping Bags
          • Sleeping Pads
          • Tents
          • Coolers / Cooking
          • Furniture / Storage
          • Lighting / Power
        • Biking
        • Paddling
        • Climbing
        • Mountaineering
        • Running
      • Lifestyle
      • Lodges and Accommodation
      • Nutrition
      • Manufacturers
      • Destinations
      • Training
      • Gear of the Year
        • Gear of the Year Winter 2024-2025
        • Gear of the Year Winter 2023-2024
        • Gear of the Year Archives
      • Best New Summer Gear
        • Best New Summer Gear 2023
        • Best New Summer Gear 2024
        • Best New Summer Gear 2022
        • Best New Summer Gear 2021
        • Best New Summer Gear 2020
      • Holiday Gift Guide
        • Holiday Gift Guide 2024
          • Holiday Gift Guide 2024 Base Layers
          • MSR Explore Revo Snowshoes
          • Fieldsheer Backcountry Heated Jacket
          • Fieldsheer Premium 2.0 Merino Heated Socks
          • MEC Hut Booties and Slippers
          • Arc’teryx Kopec GTX Shoe
          • Arc’teryx Kragg Insulated Approach Shoes
          • Gregory Verte 18 Backpack
          • Grundens Deck-Boss Ankle Boot
          • MEC Northern Light Vest
          • Montec-Scope-Ski-Goggles
          • Mountain Hardware Kor Airshell Hoody
          • Mountain Hardware Kor Alloy Crew
          • Arcade Atlas Belt
          • Dynafit Ridge Dynastretch Jacket
          • Shokz OpenRun Pro 2 headphones
          • Buff Merino Move Multifunctional Neckwear
          • Bootdoc Foot Warmer
          • Cotopaxi Allpa 42L Travel Pack
          • DPS LastBag
          • DPS PHANTOM Glide At-Home Kit
          • DPS Mission Quiver Roller
          • Dragon Amped sunglasses
          • Dragon DX3 Plus OTG photochromic goggle
          • Fuse Lenses Anclote Flashback
          • Garmin Fenix 8 Solar Sapphire Watch
          • Gregory Alpaca Gear Tote 30
          • Hotronic Boot Dryer
          • MEC Aluminum Pot Set
          • Gnara Go There Pants
          • Grundens Shackleton 2.0 Duffel
          • Jones Deeper 19L Backpack
          • Le Bent Core Midweight Crew base layer
          • Leatherman ARC
          • Montane Nordes Hooded Softshell Jacket and Pants
          • Helly Hansen Odin Everdown Hooded Jacket
          • Helly Hansen Verglas Infinity Shell Jacket 2.0
          • Montec Fawk Ski Jacket
          • Pomoca Free Pro 2.0 Skins
          • Rab Glaceon Pro Down Jacket
          • Rab Khroma Converge GORE-TEX Ski Jacket & Pants
          • Smith Squad MAG Goggles
          • Stellar Guide Aerogel Hybrid Hood 2.0
          • Stellar Ultralight Down Hood 2.0
          • Arms of Andes Alpaca Half Zip & Wool Leggings
          • Cotopaxi Allpa 70L Duffel Bag
          • Giro Taggert Mips Helmet
          • Loonr Hi Flyer Boots
          • Paka Mountain Crew
          • Roll Recovery SUPERPLUSH Classic Shoes
          • Smartwool Smartloft Hooded Jacket and Pants
          • Ortovox Switchback 32 Ski Touring Backpack
          • Cotopaxi Allpa X 3L Hip Pack
          • Giro Sagen Ski Goggle
          • Icebreaker Ski+ Over the Calf Socks
          • MEC-Fireside-Fleece-Snap-Pullover
          • Montec Roast Mittens
          • Mountain-Hardware-Sunblocker-Hoody
          • MSR Titan Kettle 900 ml
          • Tailgate-Industries-The Gondom-Goggle-Cover
          • Wild Country Rope Tarp
          • Bootdoc Race Merino PFI 50 Socks
          • Remind Soles Destin Impact Insoles
          • Kari Traa Rose Baselayer Half Zip Top and Pants
          • Le Bent Midweight Quarter Zip
          • Ombraz Dolomite Sunglasses
          • Ortovox Fleece Rib Hoody
          • Ortovox Merino Thermovent Base Layer
          • Smartwool Intraknit Merino Tech Half Zip
          • Suunto Wing Bone Conduction headphones
          • Sweet Protection Adapter Mips Helmet
          • Sweet Protection Connor Rig Reflect Goggles
          • Zeal Optics Selkirk Glacier Glasses
          • Norrona more flex1 Pants
          • Norrona Octa Zip Hood
          • Norrona Lyngen Alpha100 Zip Hood
          • MEC Deluxe Pillow
        • Holiday Gift Guide 2023
        • Holiday Gift Guide 2022
        • Holiday Gift Guide 2021
        • Holiday Gift Guide 2020
        • Holiday Gift Guide 2019
        • Holiday Gift Guide 2018
        • Holiday Gift Guide 2017
        • Holiday Gift Guide 2016
      • Pro Skier Interviews
    • NEWS
    • STORE
      • Guides & Maps
      • Gear Deals
        • Alpine Touring Boots
        • Backcountry Skis
        • Alpine Touring Bindings
        • Backcountry Accessories
        • Off-Season Gear
        • Climbing Skins
    • ROUTES
    • LODGING
      • Coast Mountains
      • Interior Mountains
      • Rocky Mountains
    • VIDEOS
      • 2022/23 Gear Reviews
      • 2021/22 Gear Reviews
      • 2020/21 Gear Reviews
      • 2019/20 Gear Reviews
      • 2018/19 Gear Reviews
      • 2017/18 Gear Reviews
      • 2016/17 Gear Reviews
      • 2015/16 Gear Reviews
      • 2014/15 Gear Reviews
      • 2013/14 Gear Reviews
      • 2012/13 Gear Reviews
      • 2011/12 Gear Reviews
      • 2020 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2019 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2018 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2017 Outdoor Presscamp
      • 2017 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2016 Outdoor Presscamp
      • 2016 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2015 SIA Show
      • 2014 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2013 SIA Show
      • 2012 Outdoor Retailer
      • Tips and Tricks
      • Backcountry Skiing
    • SAFETY
      • Plan Ahead
      • Equipment
      • Resources
      • Avalanche Skills Training
      • Managing warmth & heat loss
    • ABOUT
      • Advertise
      • Glossary
      • Contact Us
      • Newsletter
      • Contest
    • REVIEWS
      • Ski Gear
      • Clothing
      • Accessories
      • Off-Season Gear
      • Lifestyle
      • Lodges and Accommodation
      • Nutrition
      • Manufacturers
      • Destinations
      • Training
      • Gear of the Year
      • Best New Summer Gear
      • Holiday Gift Guide
      • Pro Skier Interviews
    • NEWS
    • STORE
      • Guides & Maps
      • Gear Deals
    • ROUTES
    • LODGING
      • Coast Mountains
      • Interior Mountains
      • Rocky Mountains
    • VIDEOS
      • 2022/23 Gear Reviews
      • 2021/22 Gear Reviews
      • 2020/21 Gear Reviews
      • 2019/20 Gear Reviews
      • 2018/19 Gear Reviews
      • 2017/18 Gear Reviews
      • 2016/17 Gear Reviews
      • 2015/16 Gear Reviews
      • 2014/15 Gear Reviews
      • 2013/14 Gear Reviews
      • 2012/13 Gear Reviews
      • 2011/12 Gear Reviews
      • 2020 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2019 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2018 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2017 Outdoor Presscamp
      • 2017 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2016 Outdoor Presscamp
      • 2016 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2015 SIA Show
      • 2014 Outdoor Retailer
      • 2013 SIA Show
      • 2012 Outdoor Retailer
      • Tips and Tricks
      • Backcountry Skiing
    • SAFETY
      • Plan Ahead
      • Equipment
      • Resources
      • Avalanche Skills Training
      • Managing warmth & heat loss
    • ABOUT
      • Advertise
      • Glossary
      • Contact Us
      • Newsletter
      • Contest
    Newsletter Signup

    TOP VIDEOS

      HOTTEST REVIEWS


      Hagan Boost 99 POW Skis Garmin inReach Plus Scarpa 4-Quattro Pro 130+ Top Ski Reviews Ortovox Ravine Jacket Scarpa Maestrale RS Boots

      Ortovox
      North Valley Huts
      Avalance Canada
      ROAM
      Fritschi Swiss Bindings
      Search
      • Home
      • »
      • Forum
      • »
      • Other talk
      • »
      • Safety Talk
      • »
      • Adventurer

      BACKCOUNTRY NEWS AND FORUMS

      Welcome to your source for the latest news, conditions, and insights on backcountry skiing and adventuring. Explore reports, gear reviews, safety tips, and more to help you make the most of your time in the wild.

      If you sign up as a member this is your chance to tell everyone about everything and anything to do with backcountry skiing. Follow the simple steps to register and WHAMMY, you’re in. If you are pulling your hair out with frustration, have a look at the help forums for answers or take a pause and drop us an email at: info (at) backcountryskiingcanada.com. We’ll do our best to help out as soon as we can (but all bets are off on a powder day, obviously).  


      Adventurer

      • RSS
      • Subscribe
      • Thomas Beakbane
        2018-02-22 09:12:40

        Adventurer

        Hi, please help resolve a heated discussion I was having with a back country partner about the best route through an open glade, like the one in the image.  It was recently in Kootenay Pass and we were not sure about snow stability, but suspected deep persistent layers of instability. One of us advocated going along the top perimeter of the glade so we would not get buried if there was a slide.  The other said that was more likely to trigger a slide and advocated for going along the bottom where it is slightly flatter with trees one could duck into.
        Which is best? Stay high or go low?
        Thanks!
        Kootenay Pass

      • admin
        2018-02-22 13:50:13

        That's a great question that others may benefit from knowing the answer to so I am going to put this out to our Facebook audience as well. (I also added the image to your post so that people can see what you are talking about).
      • Thomas Beakbane
        2018-02-22 13:56:20

        THANKS!
      • Douglas
        2018-02-22 17:55:17

        Hi Thomas,

        That's a complex question with many possible factors involved and since you state that it's not even the actual slope in the image, it makes it even harder. But I'll try to help you out with the bit I've learned over the years:

        1. You mentioned PWL's. I think it may be good to clarify that those PWL's you're referring to were in fact very serious instabilities with major consequences. One thing I've learned (the hard way) is to never trust surface hoar instabilities, even after they've appeared to tighten up. It's not like any other weak layer, can't stress that enough. For the most part and to generalize, the dragons of the weak layers in the Columbia Mountains are early season rain crusts (think: November crust, etc.), storm shears and surface hoar. Of course there's more but keeping it simple here, those are the main ones IMO. Usually, with appropriate time given, the rain crust issue will settle and not be an issue (not always though but usually) until spring when it once again can become a serious issue. Storm shears are overall, easily managed. We just give them a bit of time to settle & bond and usually, all is good in Kansas. As already mentioned, never fully trust surface hoar! It's the one PWL that catches even the pro's by surprise.

        1. Regarding traveling more along the top or bottom, again this is pretty tough to summarize simply but a lot can depend on what type of weak layer you may be concerned about. Since the PWL's you're referring to are surface hoar layers, a common mistake is that people often think that they are less likely to trigger from the bottom of a slope. Although that's probably true for most potential weak layers, surface hoar is a unique beast. It is OFTEN triggered from the bottom of a slope. A friend and myself once triggered a Class 3.5 very far from the actual slope, thing rolled through both sides of us, continued to valley bottom and buried the Connaught uptrack. We were super lucky as we were on a small piece of slightly higher ground, that saved us. Thought we were gonners fer sure. Another time, we were causing every slope in a huge valley to release from 1/4 to 1/5km away while walking in the flat valley bottom.

        1. As far as trees offering protection: sure, sometimes but sometimes not at all. Especially when historic avalanches are releasing and ripping brand new avy paths through 300+ year old forest. Lots of that happened in the most recent cycle. Using the image that you posted, I'd say we're looking at some fairly complex terrain there. No easy way up that thing, regardless of what tactic is used, you'd still have to put yourself in a fairly exposed position. Also, that's like prime terrain for avalanches during such cycles (surface hoar), lots of folks think the trees will offer protection. Fact is, terrain as shown in the image is probably some of the most frightening terrain during times like that.

        Sorry if I didn't answer your question as you were asking, kinda hard piecing together exactly what you were asking about as well as having just a photo to go by. Also, there's way more to this stuff than I've mentioned but years of snowpack/terrain observations just can't be summed up without writing a book about it.

        One last thing I'll mention is, during times like that, using the terrain appropriate to the conditions is a really good idea!! You asked: Which is best? Stay high or go low? Considering that you guys were obviously concerned about the instabilities there, likely the best advice I could offer is: Neither, scenarios like that call for good judgment, a good time to keep it mellow, live another day, drink anutha beer, that kinda thing!!

        Thanks for posting this, it's good to see people wanting to learn.

        P.S. I'm not an expert so some of the stuff that I've said could be B.S. ;)

      • Thomas Beakbane
        2018-02-23 14:36:05

        Hi Douglas - thanks that is interesting and helpful! You might not be an "expert" but you sound wise enough.

        Just to clarify the overall conditions on the days we ventured out. Avalanche Canada rated the conditions "moderate" below the tree line and the early season hoar had been stabilized with early February rain and warmth that had subsequently frozen solid. This was covered by 10 - 30 cm of windblown powder with lots of spatial variability.  There was no slumping or sloughing and a number of skiers had tracked over exposed/steeper slopes with no triggering. 

        So the question is not about absolute safety but relative peace of mind. My inclination is to stay above danger zones (excluding venturing onto cornices). Hypothetically speaking I would feel safer triggering a slide from above than seeing one coming toward me - trees or no trees.

        Any other votes for high or low?  

         
      • 2018-03-01 20:54:30

        I am going to copy this question as this questions and the answers can be helpful for guide. Thanks

      Ortovox
      North Valley Huts
      Avalance Canada
      ROAM
      Fritschi Swiss Bindings
      • Terms of Use
      • Privacy Policy

      Copyright © 2023-24 Backcountry Skiing Canada. All Rights Reserved.